ALT Linux Team development discussions
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Sergei Epiphanov <serpiph@nikiet.ru>
To: ALT Linux Team development discussions <devel@lists.altlinux.org>
Subject: Re: [devel] [OFF] runglish
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:24:01 +0300
Message-ID: <200910291524.01357.serpiph@nikiet.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20091029115856.GB20317@wo.int.altlinux.org>

В сообщении от 29 октября 2009 14:58:56 автор Dmitry V. Levin написал:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 01:41:52PM +0300, Sergei Epiphanov wrote:
> > В сообщении от 29 октября 2009 13:14:23 автор Dmitry V. Levin написал:
> > > > Наиболее оптимальным языком для
> > > > разработчика всегда был есть и будет тот
> > > > язык, которым является для него родным.
> > >
> > > Try to contact upstream using your native language, and you won't be
> > > heard.  Or try to write documentation using only your native language,
> > > and you'll be left without most of your potential users.
> > >
> > > If you want to keep your business going, you have to familiarize
> > > yourself with English.
> >
> > YOU ask upstream, not upstream asks you. And they NEVER must understand
> > language they don't speak or use. But you can ask them if they know other
> > languages in order to understand the problem or give interesting info in
> > less time and then use ONE language in discussion.
> 
> This is pretty useless, and I've never (or almost never) seen such attempts
> in public mailing lists for developers.

Это ещё не значит, что договорённости нет. Просто она могла иметь место 
раньше.

> > Second, look at our native
> > projects. They speak with each other using language most known to all in
> > subject.
> 
> What "our native projects" are you talking about? All projects I'm
> involved in except Sisyphus don't speak Russian.  The vast majority of
> free software projects doesn't speak Russian.  If you want to be a good
> free software contributor, diff(1) is not enough, because your task is not
> usually limited to posting a patch, you also have to explain it and defend
> it.

Где я сказал про "free software"? Кстати, пока мои связи с разработчиками 
сводились только к diff и пока патчи принимали к рассмотрению без каких-либо 
пространных рассуждений с моей стороны. Возможно, что в крупных проектах это 
не пройдёт.

> > I see you know Russian but nevertheless answer in English. You see,
> > pepole not known with Russian will not understand the question and
> > discussion at all even you will answer in English because of unkown
> > question. You have to send them full translation of such discussion in
> > all situations (with English or Russian answer). Add citations here and
> > you will get more work to mantain speaking for foreign people.
> 
> If these people fail to understand my _primitive_ English, then they surely
> fail to read NEWS and ChangeLog files, they certainly cannot talk to
>  upstream, and therefore don't qualify as good package maintainers.  They
>  haven't read good books and papers because these books (and especially
>  papers) are mostly written in English, so they probably do not understand
>  code well enough. If they want to be good package maintainers, then they
>  have to learn this "ugly language".  And if they won't learn, why should I
>  help them?

Я не про то. Пример: я задаю вопрос на русском, Вы мне отвечаете на любом 
другом языке (хоть примитивно, хоть литературно с применением всех возможных 
вариантов). Человек, не знающий русский, всё равно не сможет понять, о чём 
здесь речь, так как не понимает вопроса, даже если понял ответ. Тогда от меня 
ускользает смысл необходимости ответа на другом языке, если всё равно текст 
придётся прогонять через переводчик.

P.S. Да, про community@. Если там ещё говорите на русском, значит и 
иностранным разработчикам тоже приходится отвечать на русском, то бишь тоже 
знать его. Или ООО в этом случае является демпфером и переводчиком между 
разработчиками и пользователями?

-- 
С уважением, Епифанов Сергей


  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-10-29 12:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-10-28 22:19 [devel] Песочница и аудит для Альтератора Paul Wolneykien
2009-10-28 22:35 ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2009-10-29  3:43   ` REAL
2009-10-29  4:43     ` Grigory Batalov
2009-10-29  9:49     ` Андрей Черепанов
2009-10-29  9:56       ` [devel] runglish Anton Farygin
2009-10-29 10:14         ` Dmitry V. Levin
2009-10-29 10:25           ` Aleksey Avdeev
2009-10-29 10:36           ` Андрей Черепанов
2009-10-29 10:41           ` Sergei Epiphanov
2009-10-29 11:58             ` Dmitry V. Levin
2009-10-29 12:13               ` Dmitry V. Levin
2009-10-29 12:21                 ` Sergey Y. Afonin
2009-10-29 12:24                   ` Aleksey Avdeev
2009-10-29 13:16                 ` Sergey Bolshakov
2009-10-29 14:28                   ` Valery V. Inozemtsev
2009-10-29 14:44                     ` Motsyo Gennadi aka Drool
2009-10-29 14:53                       ` Valery V. Inozemtsev
2009-10-29 22:28                         ` [devel] Administrativia Dmitry V. Levin
2009-10-29 19:06                     ` [devel] runglish Andrey Rahmatullin
2009-10-29 19:36                     ` Konstantin Pavlov
2009-10-29 20:01                       ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2009-10-29 20:19                         ` Aleksey Novodvorsky
2009-10-29 21:02                           ` Motsyo Gennadi aka Drool
2009-10-29 22:36                             ` Led
2009-10-29 22:44                               ` Aleksey Novodvorsky
2009-10-30  4:17                             ` REAL
2009-10-30  6:15                             ` Денис Смирнов
2009-10-30  6:39                               ` REAL
2009-10-30  4:16                       ` REAL
2009-10-30  6:19                     ` Vladimir V. Kamarzin
2009-10-29 14:35                   ` Alexey Gladkov
2009-10-29 12:24               ` Sergei Epiphanov [this message]
2009-10-29 12:24               ` Alex Gorbachenko
2009-10-30 17:47               ` [devel] апстрим "vs" downstream Michael Shigorin
2009-10-29 10:44           ` [devel] runglish Anton Farygin
2009-10-29 10:52             ` Damir Shayhutdinov
2009-10-29 10:55               ` Anton Farygin
2009-10-30 17:13             ` Michael Shigorin
2009-10-30  6:53           ` Afanasov Dmitry
2009-10-30  7:20             ` Andrey Rahmatullin
2009-10-30  7:46               ` Алексей Шенцев
2009-10-30  7:53                 ` Andrey Rahmatullin
2009-10-30 14:06             ` Motsyo Gennadi aka Drool
2009-10-30 14:07               ` [devel] opera + flash Afanasov Dmitry
2009-10-30 16:42                 ` Motsyo Gennadi aka Drool
2009-10-30 17:06           ` [devel] выбирая язык Michael Shigorin
2009-10-30 19:02             ` Денис Корявов
2009-10-29 12:18         ` [devel] runglish Aleksey Novodvorsky
2009-10-29 15:00           ` Anton Farygin
2009-10-29  9:56       ` [devel] Песочница и аудит для Альтератора Konstantin Pavlov
2009-10-29 10:01         ` Aleksey Avdeev
2009-10-29 10:11           ` Алексей Шенцев
2009-10-29 10:17             ` Andrey Rahmatullin
2009-10-29 10:22             ` Dmitriy Kruglikov
2009-10-29 10:37               ` Andrey Rahmatullin
2009-10-29 11:00                 ` Dmitriy Kruglikov
2009-10-29 11:07                   ` Motsyo Gennadi aka Drool
2009-10-29 10:31             ` Андрей Черепанов
2009-10-29 10:34               ` Valery V. Inozemtsev
2009-10-29 10:37               ` Dmitriy Kruglikov
2009-10-29 10:40                 ` Андрей Черепанов
2009-10-29 10:43                   ` Motsyo Gennadi aka Drool
2009-10-29 10:44                     ` Mykola S. Grechukh
2009-10-29 10:46                     ` Mikhail A. Pokidko
2009-10-29 10:48                       ` Motsyo Gennadi aka Drool
2009-10-29 11:03                         ` Sergei Epiphanov
2009-10-29 10:59                     ` Андрей Черепанов
2009-10-29 10:51               ` AShen
2009-10-29 10:31         ` Андрей Черепанов
2009-10-29  6:18 ` Anton Farygin
2009-10-29 11:04   ` [devel] Песочница и аудит для Альтератора + language Paul Wolneykien
2009-10-30  7:24   ` [devel] Песочница и аудит для Альтератора Stanislav Ievlev
2009-10-30  8:41     ` Anton Farygin
2009-10-30  8:46       ` Stanislav Ievlev
2009-10-30 11:10     ` Paul Wolneykien
2009-10-30 13:14       ` Stanislav Ievlev
2009-10-30 13:25         ` Stanislav Ievlev
2009-11-03 21:28           ` Alexey Rusakov
2009-11-04 12:21             ` Paul Wolneykien
2009-10-30 13:36         ` Paul Wolneykien
2009-11-02  8:38           ` Stanislav Ievlev
2009-10-30 19:41 ` Michael Shigorin

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=200910291524.01357.serpiph@nikiet.ru \
    --to=serpiph@nikiet.ru \
    --cc=devel@lists.altlinux.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

ALT Linux Team development discussions

This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone:

	git clone --mirror http://lore.altlinux.org/devel/0 devel/git/0.git

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V2 devel devel/ http://lore.altlinux.org/devel \
		devel@altlinux.org devel@altlinux.ru devel@lists.altlinux.org devel@lists.altlinux.ru devel@linux.iplabs.ru mandrake-russian@linuxteam.iplabs.ru sisyphus@linuxteam.iplabs.ru
	public-inbox-index devel

Example config snippet for mirrors.
Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://lore.altlinux.org/org.altlinux.lists.devel


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git