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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:59:38 +0300
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To: ALT Linux Team development discussions <devel@lists.altlinux.org>
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Cc: java@altlinux.org
Subject: Re: [devel] Java: no magic wand, no magic hammer
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On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 11:59:16PM +0200, Igor Vlasenko wrote:

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=D0=CF=C9=D3=CB=C1" =C9 jar,=20
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=D1.

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=CF=CE=C1 =CD=CF=D6=C5=D4
=CC=C5=D6=C1=D4=D8? (=D1 =D0=D2=CF classpath, =D3=CF=C2=D3=D4=D7=C5=CE=CE=
=CF).

DS>> =EE=CF jar =CE=C5 =CF=C2=CC=C1=C4=C1=C5=D4 =D0=D2=C1=CB=D4=C9=DE=C5=D3=
=CB=C9 =CE=C9=CB=C1=CB=C9=CD=C9 =D3=D7=CF=CA=D3=D4=D7=C1=CD=C9 =CE=CF=D2=CD=
=C1=CC=D8=CE=CF=CA =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C9.
DS>> =E8=CF=D4=D1 =D0=CF =D3=D7=CF=C5=CA =D3=D5=D4=C9 =D3=C9=CC=D8=CE=CF =
=CE=C1=D0=CF=CD=C9=CE=C1=C5=D4 =D3=D4=C1=D2=D9=C5 =C4=CF=C2=D2=D9=C5 .a =C2=
=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C9.
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=D5.
IV> =F7=CF=DA=D8=CD=C5=CD =CB =D0=D2=C9=CD=C5=D2=D5 =CB=CC=C1=D3=D3 org.viy=
=2EExample1 .
IV> Q: =DE=D4=CF =C2=D5=C4=C5=D4, =C5=D3=CC=C9 =D3=CB=C1=DA=C1=D4=D8=20
IV> $java org.viy.Example1=20
IV> ?
IV> A: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError
IV> Q: =D0=CF=DE=C5=CD=D5?
IV> A: =CE=C5 =D5=CB=C1=DA=C1=CE -classpath /usr/share/java/viy-example.jar
IV> =C9=CC=C9 -classpath /home/viy/example/build=20
IV> . =F7=CF=D4 =CD=D9 =C9 =D5=D7=C9=C4=C5=CC=C9 =D7 =C1=D2=C7=D5=CD=C5=CE=
=D4=C1=C8 =D7=D9=DA=CF=D7=C1=20
IV> =D0=C1=D0=CB=D5 /home/viy/example/build=20
IV> =C9 =C1=D2=C8=C9=D7 /usr/share/java/viy-example.jar.
IV> =EF=C2=C5 =D3=D5=DD=CE=CF=D3=D4=C9 =C9 =D1=D7=CC=D1=C0=D4=D3=D1 =C8=D2=
=C1=CE=C9=CC=C9=DD=C1=CD=C9 =CB=CF=C4=C1 java --
IV> java - =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C1=CD=C9.
IV> =EB=C1=CB =D7=C9=C4=C9=CD, =C2=C5=DA =D5=CB=C1=DA=C1=CE=C9=D1 =C2=C9=C2=
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=D5
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=D4=D3=D4=D7=D5=C0=DD=C9=CA
=2Ea/.so.

IV> =F0=CF=D0=D2=CF=C2=D5=CA=D4=C5 =D4=C1=CB=CF=CA =D4=D2=C0=CB =D3 =D4=C5=
=CD =D6=C5 org.mortbay.jetty,=20
IV> =CF=D3=CF=C2=C5=CE=CE=CF =C5=D3=CC=C9 =D2=D1=C4=CF=CD =D0=CF =DA=C1=D7=
=C9=D3=C9=CD=CF=D3=D4=D1=CD =D5=D3=D4=C1=CE=CF=D7=CC=C5=CE=D9 jetty5 =C9 je=
tty6.=20
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=CD=CF=D6=C5=D4 =D4=D2=C5=C2=CF=D7=C1=D4=D8
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=D5=CC=C9=D7=C1=D4=D8.

IV> /usr/share/java - =DC=D4=CF =CE=C5 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C1, =C1 =
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=CE=C5=DE=D4=CF =D7=D2=CF=C4=C5 /usr/lib,
IV> =D5=CD=C5=CA java =D3=C1=CD=C1 =C9=D3=CB=C1=D4=D8 org.viy.Example1.=20

=EE=C5=D4! /usr/lib =D4=C1=CB=D6=C5 =D0=CF=D4=D2=C5=C2=D5=C5=D4 =CF=D4 =D0=
=D2=CF=C7=D2=C1=CD=CD=C9=D3=D4=C1 =D5=CB=C1=DA=C1=D4=D8 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=
=D4=C5=CB=D5. =F0=CF=C9=D3=CB
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=C5=D4.

IV> =D1 =D3=DE=C9=D4=C1=C0 =C1=CE=C1=CC=CF=C7=C9=C0 /usr/share/java =C9 /us=
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IV> =D4=CF=DE=CE=C5=C5 =C2=D5=C4=C5=D4 =D3=CF=CF=D4=D7=C5=D4=D3=D4=D7=C9=C5=
 /usr/share/java/** =C9 /usr/lib.
IV> =CE=CF =D0=D5=D3=D4=D8 =C2=D5=C4=C5=D4. =F4=CF=C7=C4=C1 -classpath /usr=
/share/java/*
IV> =D3=CF=CF=D4=D7=C5=D4=D3=D4=D7=D5=C5=D4 =CC=C9=CE=CB=CF=D7=CB=C1 ./hell=
o_world c=CF =D7=D3=C5=CD=C9 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C1=CD=C9 =C9=DA
IV> /usr/lib --- =CB=CF=DB=CD=C1=D2=CE=C1=D1 =D0=D2=CF=D4=C9=D7=CF=D0=CF=CC=
=CF=D6=CE=CF=D3=D4=D8 -Wl,--as-needed.

=E9=CD=C5=CE=CE=CF =D4=C1=CB. =F6=D5=D4=CB=CF=C5 =DA=D2=C5=CC=C9=DD=C5.

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IV> A: =DE=D4=CF =D0=CF=CE=D1=D4=C9=C5 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C9 =CE=
=C5 =D3=D7=CF=C4=C9=D4=D3=D1 =CB =D0=CF=CE=D1=D4=C9=C0 =CB=CC=C1=D3=D3=C1.
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=D3=D1.

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=C5 =C1=CE=C1=CC=CF=C7=C9 =CF=C2=D9=DE=CE=D9=CD symbols =D7 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=
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=D3=D3 B.
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=C4=CC=D1 =D3=D7=CF=C5=CA =D2=C1=C2=CF=D4=D9 =CB=CC=C1=D3=D3 A.

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spath =D0=D2=CF=D0=C9=D3=C1=D4=D8 =D3=D3=D9=CC=CB=D5 =CE=C1 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=
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=C9 =CE=C1 B.

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=CF=D7=CB=C5).

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=CC=CF =DA=C1=C4=D5=CD=C1=CE=CF.

=F5=C7=D5.

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=CA =D5 =CE=C1=D3 =D1=D7=CC=D1=C5=D4=D3=D1
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=CE=C5 "=C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C1". =EB =D3=DE=C1=D3=D4=D8=C0 =D5 =CE=
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=CE=CF =D3=C9=CC=D8=CE=CF =D2=C1=C4=CF=D7=C1=D4=D8=D3=D1.
IV> IMHO, =C8=CF=D2=CF=DB=C1=D1 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C1 =DC=CB=D3=D0=
=CF=D2=D4=C9=D2=D5=C5=D4 =CD=C5=D4=CF=C4=CF=D7 =CE=C5 =CE=C1=CD=CE=CF=C7=CF=
 =C2=CF=CC=D8=DB=C5, =DE=C5=CD
IV> jar =C1=D2=C8=C9=D7 - public =CB=CC=C1=D3=D3=CF=D7.

=F4=CF=CC=D8=CB=CF =D7=CF=D4 =CD=D9 =CE=C5 =D3=D4=C1=D7=C9=CD =DA=C1=D7=C9=
=D3=C9=CD=CF=D3=D4=C9 =CE=C1 =C6=D5=CE=CB=C3=C9=C9 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=
=CB -- =CD=D9 =D3=D4=C1=D7=C9=CD
=DA=C1=D7=C9=D3=C9=CD=CF=D3=D4=C9 =CE=C1 symbol versions. =E5=D3=CC=C9 =C2=
=D9 =D5 =CE=C1=D3 =C2=D9=CC=C9 =DA=C1=D7=C9=D3=C9=CD=CF=D3=D4=C9 =CE=C1 =C6=
=D5=CE=CB=C3=C9=C9
glibc, =C2=C1=DA=C1 rpm =D4=D2=C5=C2=CF=D7=C1=CC=C1 =C2=D9 =CF=D4=C4=C5=CC=
=D8=CE=CF=C7=CF storage =D3 =C4=D7=D5=CD=D1 =D2=D5=DE=CB=C1=CD=C9 =C4=CC=D1
=D0=C5=D2=C5=CE=CF=D3=CB=C9.

DS>> =E8=CF=D4=D1 =D5 =CE=C1=D3 =C5=D3=D4=D8 =C5=DD=C5 =CF=C4=CE=C1 =D7=C5=
=DD=D8 -- =D7 META-INF =CD=CF=D6=C5=D4 =C2=D9=D4=D8 =D6=C5=D3=D4=CB=CF =D0=
=D2=CF=D0=C9=D3=C1=CE=D9=CA
DS>> classpath. =F1 =CE=C5 =DA=CE=C1=C0 =CB=C1=CB=C9=C5 =CE=C5=C4=CF=D3=D4=
=C1=D4=CB=C9 =D5 =DC=D4=CF=C7=CF =D2=C5=DB=C5=CE=C9=D1, =CE=CF =D0=CC=C0=D3=
=D9 =CF=DE=C5=D7=C9=C4=CE=D9:
DS>>  - =CD=CF=D6=CE=CF =C4=C5=CC=C1=D4=D8 =D0=D2=CF=D3=D4=D9=C5 =C6=C1=CA=
=CC=CF=D7=D9=C5 =DA=C1=D7=C9=D3=C9=CD=CF=D3=D4=C9
DS>>  - =C9=C8 =D5=C4=CF=D7=CC=C5=D4=D7=CF=D2=C5=CE=C9=C5 =CD=CF=D6=C5=D4 =
=C1=D7=D4=CF=CD=C1=D4=C9=DE=C5=D3=CB=C9 =CF=DA=CE=C1=DE=C1=D4=D8 =D7=CF=DA=
=CD=CF=D6=CE=CF=D3=D4=D8 =DA=C1=D0=D5=D3=D4=C9=D4=D8
DS>>    =D0=D2=C9=CC=CF=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5
IV> jpackage policy =CE=C5 =DA=D2=D1 =DA=C1=D0=D2=C5=DD=C1=C5=D4 =D6=C5=D3=
=D4=CB=CF =D0=D2=CF=D0=C9=D3=C1=CE=D9=CA =D7 META-INF classpath.
IV> =D3=CD.=20
IV> http://www.freesource.info/wiki/Altlinux/Policy/Java/ClassPathInManifest
IV> The Class-Path system of MANIFESTs is evil
IV> http://jpackage.org/jpprequest.php
IV> https://www.zarb.org/pipermail/jpackage-discuss/2003-June/002095.html

=F0=D2=CF=DE=C9=D4=C1=C0.

IV> =D3=CB=D2=C9=D0=D4 build-classpath =CF=C2=C8=CF=C4=C9=D4 =D7=D3=C5 =DC=
=D4=C9 =CD=C5=D3=D4=C1, =DE=D4=CF=C2=D9 =CE=C1=CA=D4=C9 =CE=D5=D6=CE=D5=C0 =
=C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=D5.
IV> =F4=CF=D4 =D6=C5 =D3=C1=CD=D9=CA $(build-classpath xml-commons-apis) =
=CD=CF=D6=C5=D4 =D2=C1=DA=D7=C5=D2=CE=D5=D4=D8=D3=D1
IV> =D7 /usr/share/java/xml-commons-apis.jar, =C1 =CD=CF=D6=C5=D4 =D7
IV> /usr/lib/jvm-exports/jre-1.6.0-sun/xml-commons-apis.jar -> /usr/lib/jvm=
/java-1.6.0-sun-1.6.0.04/jre/lib/rt.jar
IV> =EB=C1=CB =C9 =D7 =D3=C9=DB=CE=D9=C8 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C1=C8,=
 =D7 =C4=C9=D3=D4=D2=C9=C2=D5=D4=C9=D7=C5 -rpath =D3=CB=CF=D2=C5=C5 =CD=C5=
=DB=C1=C5=D4.

=E7=C8=CD. =EB=C1=CB =D2=C1=DA =C4=CC=D1 =C4=C9=D3=D4=D2=C9=C2=D5=D4=C9=D7=
=C1 =D3=D0=CF=D2=CE=CF=C5 =D5=D4=D7=C5=D2=D6=C4=C5=CE=C9=D1 -- =CD=D9 =CD=
=CF=D6=C5=CD =DA=CE=C1=D4=D8 =CB=D5=C4=C1
=C2=D5=C4=C5=D4 =D3=D3=D9=CC=CB=C1.

IV> =F3 =C4=D2=D5=C7=CF=CA =D3=D4=CF=D2=CF=CE=D9, =C9 =DC=D4=CF killer, =D6=
=C5=D3=D4=CB=CF =D0=D2=CF=D0=C9=D3=C1=CE=D9=CA =D7 META-INF classpath
IV> =D3=C4=C5=CC=C1=C5=D4 =D4=C1=CB=C9=C5 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C9 =
=CE=C5=D0=D2=C9=C7=CF=C4=CE=D9=CD=C9 =C4=CC=D1 =D2=C1=DA=D2=C1=C2=CF=D4=DE=
=C9=CB=C1.
IV> =F4=C1=CB =C2=D9 =CC=C0=C4=C9 =C9=D3=D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=CC=C9 =C4=
=CC=D1 =D3=D7=CF=C9=C8 =D0=D2=CF=C5=CB=D4=CF=D7 =C4=C9=D3=D4=D2=C9=C2=D5=D4=
=C9=D7=CE=D9=C5 jar,
IV> =CE=CF =D3 =D6=C5=D3=D4=CB=CF =D0=D2=CF=D0=C9=D3=C1=CE=D9=CD =D7 META-I=
NF classpath =D0=CF=D7=C5=C4=C5=CE=C9=C5 =D0=D2=CF=C7=D2=C1=CD=CD=D9
IV> =D3 =D4=C1=CB=C9=CD=C9 =C2=C9=C2=CC=C9=CF=D4=C5=CB=C1=CD=C9 =C2=D5=C4=
=C5=D4 =CE=C1 =DE=D5=D6=CF=CA =CD=C1=DB=C9=CE=C5 =D2=C1=DA=D2=D5=DB=C9=D4=
=C5=CC=D8=CE=CF =CE=C5=D0=D2=C5=C4=D3=CB=C1=DA=D5=C5=CD=D9=CD.
IV> =EB=D4=CF =DA=CE=C1=C5=D4, =DE=D4=CF =C9 =CB=C1=CB=CF=CA =D7=C5=D2=D3=
=C9=C9 =CF=CE=CF =D4=C1=CD =DA=C1=C7=D2=D5=DA=C9=D4, =DE=D4=CF=C2=D9 =CE=C1=
=DE=C1=D4=D8
IV> =F7=C5=CC=C9=CB=D5=C0 =F7=CF=CA=CE=D5 =FA=C1 =F4=C1=D0=CB=C9 ?
IV> =F0=D2=C9=C4=C5=D4=D3=D1 =C9=D3=CB=C1=D4=D8 jar'=D9 =D0=CF =C6=C1=CA=CC=
=CF=D0=CF=CD=CF=CA=CB=C1=CD =C9=CE=D4=C5=D2=CE=C5=D4=C1, =CF=D4=CB=D5=C4=C1=
 =D5=C7=CF=C4=CE=CF,
IV> =CE=CF =D4=CF=CC=D8=CB=CF =CE=C5 =C9=DA =D2=CF=C4=CE=CF=C7=CF =C4=C9=D3=
=D4=D2=C9=C2=D5=D4=C9=D7=C1. =EB=CF=CD=D5 =D4=CF=C7=C4=C1 =CF=CE=C9 =D7=CF=
=CF=C2=DD=C5 =CE=D5=D6=CE=D9?

=E4=CF =CB=CF=CE=C3=C1 =CE=C5 =D0=CF=CE=C9=CD=C1=C0 =D0=CF=DE=C5=CD=D5 =D4=
=C1=CB=C1=D1 =D0=D2=CF=C2=CC=C5=CD=C1 =CD=CF=D6=C5=D4 =D7=CF=DA=CE=C9=CB=CE=
=D5=D4=D8 =C9=CD=C5=CE=CE=CF =D7
=C4=C9=D3=D4=D2=C9=C2=D5=D4=C9=D7=C5.

IV> =F4=C1=CB =DE=D4=CF no magic wand, no magic hammer.

=F3 =DC=D4=C9=CD =D3=CF=C7=CC=C1=D3=C5=CE :)

=E8=CF=D4=D1 =CF=D4 =D4=C1=CB=C9=C8 =C2=D9 =C9 =CE=C5 =CF=D4=CB=C1=DA=C1=CC=
=D3=D1 :)

--=20
=F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD, =E4=C5=CE=C9=D3

http://freesource.info
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
=E9 =EC=C5=CE=C9=CE =CE=C5 =CE=C1 =F3=C9 =D0=C9=D3=C1=CC =D0p=CF=C7p=C1=CD=
=CD=D5...

--mojUlQ0s9EVzWg2t
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