Re: [Comm-en] Video mode being set at boot time

Re: [Comm-en] Video mode being set at boot time

[vadim]

>Either turn off framebuffer,

And I will revert to 80*25? 
Don't like this on 17 inch Philips 107B -  (1152*864*100Hz- OK)

>reflashing video card (possible with Radeons at least).

Ouch!  Don't like that idea either. Though the card is Radeon 9000 from Sapphire.

I'd prefer to tune it up. 

"Man what? - asked the tired child" (c) Anecdote

// ----------------------------------------------------
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] Video mode being set at boot time

[Michael Shigorin]

On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:41:25PM +0300, vadim@mail.cytspb.rssi.ru wrote:
> >Either turn off framebuffer,
> And I will revert to 80*25? 

Mmm... not necessarily.

> Don't like this on 17 inch Philips 107B -  (1152*864*100Hz- OK)

I used to have SVGATextMode, but now just prefer X.

> >reflashing video card (possible with Radeons at least).
> Ouch!  Don't like that idea either. Though the card is Radeon
> 9000 from Sapphire.  I'd prefer to tune it up. 

Then you could try SVGATextMode, radeonfb or searching for
"radeon linux framebuffer refresh" -- but I'm no advisor here,
see above about X. :)

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

Re: [Comm-en] Video mode being set at boot time

[vadim]

> see above about X. :)

Yeah... Anyway, I hope that 2.2 will have the built-in Radeon 9000 support.
Above all, I'm a biologist, not just programmer. :)

// -----------------------------------------
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] Video mode being set at boot time

[Aleksey Smirnov]

vadim@mail.cytspb.rssi.ru wrote:

>>see above about X. :)
>>    
>>
>
>Yeah... Anyway, I hope that 2.2 will have the built-in Radeon 9000 support.
>
Yes

>Above all, I'm a biologist, not just programmer. :)
>
It is obvious, from the name of your institute.

>
>// -----------------------------------------
>A Linux newbie,
>Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS
>
>_______________________________________________
>Community-en mailing list
>Community-en@altlinux.org
>http://www.altlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/community-en
>
>  
>

Re: [Comm-en] Video mode being set at boot time

[vadim]

> Umm... btw, have you seen http://sal.kachinatech.com ?

Thanks A LOT!
Hope I find SciGraphica in the ALT Linux 2.2 ... 

BTW, migration of (common, not physics/astronomers/ other computer-
orirnted) scientists under Linux IMHO is severely limited by the steep 
learning curve.

What is needed  for example for a biologist - special distro, with excluded 
Pilot-link, with one or two (not 5 or 10) ICQ client, one or two browsers 
(Opera is better than Mozilla), OpenOffice, citation manager, and 
everything I forgot... 

//------------------------------------
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] Video mode being set at boot time

[Michael Shigorin]

On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 08:05:40PM +0300, vadim@mail.cytspb.rssi.ru wrote:
> Hope I find SciGraphica in the ALT Linux 2.2 ... 

No.  But I'd give it another look...

> What is needed  for example for a biologist - special distro

Huh?  Did you say "ALT Linux Junior"? :)

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

[Comm-en] ALT for scientist (personal)

[vadim]

> > What is needed  for example for a biologist - special distro
> Huh?  Did you say "ALT Linux Junior"? :)

No way. You still cannot give it to a common exUSSR scientist, who 
knows only MS apps. 

Please look at:
http://forum.nomicrosoft.ru/pbb/viewtopic.php?t=142
And please, excuse me the style I used there. ALT is the most user-
friendly Linux I have seen so far, but it is still NOT ENOUGH user 
friendly.
I am one of the best programmers of our Insititute, and one of the most 
advanced computer users in the Institute - and what can I  say about 
common people? Who blindly use MS Outlook even after they got a virus 
with it?? And being warned  ???

//------------------------------------------
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] ALT for scientist (personal)

[vadim]

> You've already seen ALJ2.2?! (/me not)
My logic:
Someone here told me it will be ready in a week ==> usually no changes 
are  done at this stage ==> 2.3 is "unstable number" ==> Next usable will 
be 2.4 :) 
How about ALT LJ2.4 Science&Engineering edition :) ?
//-----------------------------
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] ALT for scientist (personal)

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:55:55 +0300
vadim@mail.cytspb.rssi.ru wrote:

> > You've already seen ALJ2.2?! (/me not)
> My logic:
> Someone here told me it will be ready in a week ==> usually no
> changes are  done at this stage ==> 2.3 is "unstable number" ==>
> Next usable will be 2.4 :) 
> How about ALT LJ2.4 Science&Engineering edition :) ?

3.0 it will be :)

We will need at least:

1. A head for such a project
2. Contributors to deal with

... and the most important thing - user's interest in it. If you can
provide us any statistics concerning user's interest in such a
project - why not?

-- 
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JID: avp@altlinux.org

[Comm-en] ALT for scientist

[vadim]

> > How about ALT LJ2.4 Science&Engineering edition :) ?
> 3.0 it will be :)
> We will need at least:
> 1. A head for such a project
> 2. Contributors to deal with
> ... and the most important thing - user's interest in it. 

No product->No interest->No product->.... :(

> If you can provide us any statistics concerning user's interest in such a
> project - why not?

Well, IMHO until MS does not start any raids in the scientific institutes - there will be no 
BIG interest. Just some people like me.

In all cases, what is needed - a distro that *easily replaces* MS programs most often 
used. Junior is not such a distro. It's sad, but it is (of couse, "replaces", but not "easily"). 

MS presses the computer stores no to sell pirated windows, and if you can roll out 
something like Lindows - one mail client, one office suite, maybe Kylix (activation key user 
should obtain in Borland) - you will sell it better than hot dogs  near the high school at 
noon. IMHO. My friends from computer company said they would seriously consider Linux 
distho that complies to these requirements. And does not have any significant glitches. 
And uses MS fonts w/o any extra overhead (the MS license allows the distribution of 
Verdana, Times New Roman, Arial, and Courier New).

Well,surely, after installation such a distro should allow the "root" to completely remove 
itself. It's sad, but true.  95% of folks, I afraid, will use that tool to remove ALT and install 
the pirated Windows, but the rest will be yours - and may form a growth point. 

BTW - is it too hard to cooperate with some company thad writes financial software to 
make  "Parus for Linux" or "Comtech for Linux"?  Goddamit, but Russ. Acad. Sci. requires 
that RAS institutes use Parus for DOS!!! I was mad when our "glavbuch" told they are 
moving (in Dec. 2002) their data from 1C for Windows to that crazy Parus for DOS...

IMHO If you will open the Internet forum, and ask there the question- "what should be in 
Junior 2.2 Scientific edition", you will get a much better reply than I can write here.
Or, maybe even better, this can be done on LRN site?
//------------------------------------------------
WADR,
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] ALT for scientist

[vadim]

> [skip--TANSTAAFL]

Can't understand - where did you see that "free lunch" in my message?  
:(
Where did I say it, eh?

IMHO, the distro I describe can be successfuly sold. For ca. 20-30 bucks.

A lot of companies in Russia *pay* for say that 1C/likewise financial soft. 
A big part of these financial programs require MS Office for work.
Why it is not OpenOffice.ru?
Why you cannot imagine them payng for ALT Linux Financial edition...  

The water does not flow under the lying stone...

Why, e.g. you cannot try to talk with Parus makers- maybe RAS will 
cover, at least in part, the costs of migration of that Parus under Linux? 
And then, if you settle the proper conditions, you will be sell that 
ALFE(Parus) to other folks?

I wonder... Maybe I do not know enough about commercial software 
development ... :(
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] Video mode being set at boot time

[Aleksey Smirnov]

vadim@mail.cytspb.rssi.ru wrote:

>>Umm... btw, have you seen http://sal.kachinatech.com ?
>>
There is also mirror at :
http://www.sai.msu.su/sal/

>>    
>>
>
>Thanks A LOT!
>Hope I find SciGraphica in the ALT Linux 2.2 ... 
>
>BTW, migration of (common, not physics/astronomers/ other computer-
>orirnted) scientists under Linux IMHO is severely limited by the steep 
>learning curve.
>
>What is needed  for example for a biologist - special distro, with excluded 
>Pilot-link, with one or two (not 5 or 10) ICQ client, one or two browsers 
>(Opera is better than Mozilla), OpenOffice, citation manager, and 
>everything I forgot... 
>
Well, I suppose it is exactly ALT Linux Junior :-)
Perhaps there can be some additional CD for biologists, but It is rather 
complicated job to prepare it, and I am not shure there are enough 
biologists who will use it.

Best,
Aleksey Smirnov

>  
>

Re: [Comm-en] ALT for scientist (personal)

[Aleksey Smirnov]

vadim@mail.cytspb.rssi.ru wrote:

>>You've already seen ALJ2.2?! (/me not)
>>    
>>
>My logic:
>Someone here told me it will be ready in a week ==> usually no changes 
>are  done at this stage ==> 2.3 is "unstable number" ==> Next usable will 
>be 2.4 :) 
>How about ALT LJ2.4 Science&Engineering edition :) ?
>
Are you reary to participate in such kind of project if we start it ?

Aleksey Smirnov,
CEO
ALT Linux

>  
>

Re: [Comm-en] ALT for scientist

[Aleksey Smirnov]

vadim@mail.cytspb.rssi.ru wrote:

>>>How about ALT LJ2.4 Science&Engineering edition :) ?
>>>      
>>>
>>3.0 it will be :)
>>We will need at least:
>>1. A head for such a project
>>2. Contributors to deal with
>>... and the most important thing - user's interest in it. 
>>    
>>
>
>No product->No interest->No product->.... :(
>
>  
>
>>If you can provide us any statistics concerning user's interest in such a
>>project - why not?
>>    
>>
>
>Well, IMHO until MS does not start any raids in the scientific institutes - there will be no 
>BIG interest. Just some people like me.
>
Perhaps, the reason is, the most of scientific software is prepared in 
Universities, and is usually developped for Unix.

>
>In all cases, what is needed - a distro that *easily replaces* MS programs most often 
>used. Junior is not such a distro. It's sad, but it is (of couse, "replaces", but not "easily"). 
>
>MS presses the computer stores no to sell pirated windows, and if you can roll out 
>something like Lindows - one mail client, one office suite, maybe Kylix (activation key user 
>should obtain in Borland) - you will sell it better than hot dogs  near the high school at 
>noon. IMHO. My friends from computer company said they would seriously consider Linux 
>distho that complies to these requirements. And does not have any significant glitches. 
>And uses MS fonts w/o any extra overhead (the MS license allows the distribution of 
>Verdana, Times New Roman, Arial, and Courier New).
>
Please, give me the link to such a license.

>
>Well,surely, after installation such a distro should allow the "root" to completely remove 
>itself. It's sad, but true.  95% of folks, I afraid, will use that tool to remove ALT and install 
>
It is not enough :-)
I'd advise to use fdisk befor.

>the pirated Windows, but the rest will be yours - and may form a growth point. 
>
>BTW - is it too hard to cooperate with some company thad writes financial software to 
>make  "Parus for Linux" or "Comtech for Linux"?  Goddamit, but Russ. Acad. Sci. requires 
>that RAS institutes use Parus for DOS!!! I was mad when our "glavbuch" told they are 
>moving (in Dec. 2002) their data from 1C for Windows to that crazy Parus for DOS...
>
Yes, it is really very hard. We really do owr best, just have a look at 
the list of non-free software in the ALT Linux Master 2.2 description on 
our site.

I have read your article at nomicrosoft.ru. If you have looked into the 
manual before configuring, you should not try to look for russian 
localisation under root.

Aleksey

Re: [Comm-en] ALT for scientist

[vadim]

> >How about ALT LJ2.4 Science&Engineering edition :) ?
> Are you reary to participate in such kind of project if we start it ?

Depends on my workload in the main work (my Ph.D thesis is to be 
defended in a month). Besides that, I am a real Linux newbie.

My primary personal intent now is to migrate my own software from DOS 
and Win32 (C++Builder) to Linux. This soft does Data acquisition with L-
card ADC/DAC card, and some analysis of it. I want to make that soft 
GPL-led, though I must check it with my chief. 

//---------------------------------
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] ALT for scientist (but not only)

[vadim]

> http://www.sai.msu.su/sal/

> >BTW, migration of (common, not physics/astronomers/ other computer-
> >What is needed  for example for a biologist - special distro, with excluded 
>Well, I suppose it is exactly ALT Linux Junior :-)
>Perhaps there can be some additional CD for biologists

I don't agree with you. LJ needs to be severely stripped, and made as 
compatible with current Windows soft as it is possible. Otherwise any 
good scientist will say - my aim is to study my object, not bash, make or 
gcc.
But the humor of the situation is that make, gcc, etc should be in that 
imaginary "scienific distro", and not on the 2nd, but on the first disk!
Or, even better, there should be  Kylix (Open Edition, 3) on it! 
Scientists tend to use RAD tools when possible, you know.

BTW. A compuler company that resides in the house I live will give a try 
to ALT Master 2.2 as soon as it will be out (guess who's "guilty" that they 
have chosen ALT :) over RH). They say price of ca. 1000 roubles is quite 
OK for corporate buyers from a small businesses if they only could 
replace Windows and MSOffice. Though in big companies (like 
Gazprom) VBA compatibility usually is needed. And I don't know whether 
OpenOffice.ru can run VBA macros ...

I hope I will have a chance to look at 2.2 Master soon.
//--------------------------------
A Linux newbie,
Vadim Alexeenko, Institute of Cytology RAS

Re: [Comm-en] ALT for scientist (but not only)

[Michael Shigorin]

On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 12:33:29PM +0300, vadim@mail.cytspb.rssi.ru wrote:
> I don't agree with you. LJ needs to be severely stripped, and
> made as compatible with current Windows soft as it is possible.

Vadim, it is not so.  Windows is Windows, Linux is Linux, and it
will stay that way, that's it.  You can watch Lindows to see how
the attempt you've outlined does.

> Otherwise any good scientist will say - my aim is to study my
> object, not bash, make or gcc.

Scientists or developers?  (I know enough, and am M.Sc. myself)

2 smi: BioCD (or SciCD more probably) would be an interesting
idea, and I've got some motivation for packaging up some more
scientific software.

PS: I get this mailing list messages directly into my inbox
(opposed to low-priority Russian list), and suspect that's the
case with most of ALT Team too -- but it would be better to spend
our time wisely.  Common talks are, well, common talks, and
mostly talked over already for thousands of times...

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/