[Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Fernando Martini]

Hi,

Have much persons interested in Latin America to join in development of
projects ALT Linux, consequently we need developer a Sisyphus in
multi-language.

My suggestion is:
-> We begin the development of a new sisyphus (or the integration of
current) for multiple languages (Russian, English, Portuguese, Spanish,
etc...)
-> Center of Development (Language mother) in English (so that everyone
can understand)
-> Start of development fast :)

Regards,
FMartini
ALT Linux Brazil
www.altlinux.com.br

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Michael Shigorin]

On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 02:45:52PM -0300, Fernando Martini wrote:
> Have much persons interested in Latin America to join in
> development of projects ALT Linux, consequently we need
> developer a Sisyphus in multi-language.

I'm from Ukraine, and Ukrainian is also a Slavic language like
Russian (so we can usually communicate in Russian) but a
different one anyways (so different translations are needed);
welcome to discuss related issues.

> My suggestion is:
> -> We begin the development of a new sisyphus (or the
> integration of current) for multiple languages (Russian,
> English, Portuguese, Spanish, etc...)

I'd think of integration and maybe a metabug for those.

> -> Center of Development (Language mother) in English
> (so that everyone can understand)

Don't think that will be feasible; OTOH judging on PLD experience
(pld-linux.org, mother language of most developers is Polish but
one can find e.g. Jeff Johnson of RPM fame in pld-devel-en@)
multi-lang development environment is doable.

> -> Start of development fast :)

Well, I've seen quite a few i18n packages related to Spanish and
Portuguese Brasilian support already.  You could probably first
describe what's wrong on a freshly installed desktop somewhere
at http://en.altlinux.org, form a TODO list and start working 
on it -- shouldn't be neccessarily fast but hope will be
productive. :)

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Fernando Martini]

Hi Michael,

I'm the Maintainer of Portuguese language (and altlinux.com.br), my
Partner (Dlnunes@) is the maintainer of Spanish language.

The problem is in integration of developer brazilian (and spanish) in
sisyphus, for this the multi-language is necessary ;)

My suggestion of English by language mother in communication of Latin
American developer with All developers. (Brazilians, russians,
ukrainian, etc..)

Several developers brazilian had interest in collaborating in the
development of ALT Linux


Regards,
FMartini


Em Seg, 2009-07-06 às 21:48 +0300, Michael Shigorin escreveu:
> On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 02:45:52PM -0300, Fernando Martini wrote:
> > Have much persons interested in Latin America to join in
> > development of projects ALT Linux, consequently we need
> > developer a Sisyphus in multi-language.
> 
> I'm from Ukraine, and Ukrainian is also a Slavic language like
> Russian (so we can usually communicate in Russian) but a
> different one anyways (so different translations are needed);
> welcome to discuss related issues.
> 
> > My suggestion is:
> > -> We begin the development of a new sisyphus (or the
> > integration of current) for multiple languages (Russian,
> > English, Portuguese, Spanish, etc...)
> 
> I'd think of integration and maybe a metabug for those.
> 
> > -> Center of Development (Language mother) in English
> > (so that everyone can understand)
> 
> Don't think that will be feasible; OTOH judging on PLD experience
> (pld-linux.org, mother language of most developers is Polish but
> one can find e.g. Jeff Johnson of RPM fame in pld-devel-en@)
> multi-lang development environment is doable.
> 
> > -> Start of development fast :)
> 
> Well, I've seen quite a few i18n packages related to Spanish and
> Portuguese Brasilian support already.  You could probably first
> describe what's wrong on a freshly installed desktop somewhere
> at http://en.altlinux.org, form a TODO list and start working 
> on it -- shouldn't be neccessarily fast but hope will be
> productive. :)
> 

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Michael Shigorin]

On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 05:16:58PM -0300, Fernando Martini wrote:
> The problem is in integration of developer brazilian (and
> spanish) in sisyphus, for this the multi-language is necessary
> ;)

Did you mean "convenient communications"?

I'd shoot for {br,sp}.altlinux.org and corresponding
devel-{br,sp}@lists.altlinux.org but be prepared to head such
effort -- that is, noone else will likely do that instead.

> My suggestion of English by language mother in communication of
> Latin American developer with All developers. (Brazilians,
> russians, ukrainian, etc..)

No-no-no, I see you have some trouble with English (me too)
and guess that lots of people _do_ have that too.  So I'd prefer
English for changelogs and such, for announcements probably, but
there might be more sense in Sisyphus do Brazil when people
working on it there can communicate in their own mother language,
not some weird English.

*And* that there are common means of communication -- be it via
"gating people" who would know several languages (ideally
including Portuguese or Spanish and Russian so as to reduce
overhead), or teaming up with Russian-speaking folks like ktirf@
and me to provide translations of devel-announce@ while
retranslating these into native lists -- so that people wouldn't
be forced into English, even if some of them would use it for
international discussion.

> Several developers brazilian had interest in collaborating in
> the development of ALT Linux

Cool, you'd probably hand them http://en.altlinux.org and
consider starting the first native-speaking list. :)

Seriously, let's try to stay with our languages not forcing 
each other into foreign ones.  I think our languages are better.

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Alexey Rusakov]

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В Пнд, 06/07/2009 в 21:48 +0300, Michael Shigorin пишет:
> On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 02:45:52PM -0300, Fernando Martini wrote:
> > -> Start of development fast :)
> 
> Well, I've seen quite a few i18n packages related to Spanish and
> Portuguese Brasilian support already.  You could probably first
> describe what's wrong on a freshly installed desktop somewhere
> at http://en.altlinux.org, form a TODO list and start working 
> on it -- shouldn't be neccessarily fast but hope will be
> productive. :)
Actually, the main trouble with localization now is http://sisyphus.ru
that is strictly bound to Russian. That's what Fernando talks about.
Concerning installations - I know it rather well that the most difficult
place to localize is the bootloader, but in general the localization is
more or less ok. Of course the work's not finished.

-- 
  Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov
  GNOME Project
  ALT Linux Team

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Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Michael Shigorin]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2009 at 12:20:54AM +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:
> Actually, the main trouble with localization now is
> http://sisyphus.ru that is strictly bound to Russian.

It's not -- there are hooks for translations in the engine
but there's apparently quite some need for web development
to employ it (and probably fix along the way).  I don't know
if anyone volunteers, and so far didn't manage to either help
someone do that or do by myself.

> That's what Fernando talks about.  Concerning installations -
> I know it rather well that the most difficult place to localize
> is the bootloader, but in general the localization is more or
> less ok. Of course the work's not finished.

Bootloader-related stuff was reworked a bit somewhere closer to
5.0 in mkimage-profiles-desktop but I don't clearly remember
whether it was *actually* fixed.  Have that on my TODO though
(for a year or so, cough).

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Alexey Rusakov]

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В Втр, 07/07/2009 в 17:58 +0300, Michael Shigorin пишет:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2009 at 12:20:54AM +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:
> > Actually, the main trouble with localization now is
> > http://sisyphus.ru that is strictly bound to Russian.
> 
> It's not -- there are hooks for translations in the engine
Good news :)

> but there's apparently quite some need for web development
> to employ it (and probably fix along the way).  I don't know
> if anyone volunteers, and so far didn't manage to either help
> someone do that or do by myself.
And this is a bad news :) Need someone who knows Perl, I suppose.
Fernando, does anybody around you know Perl?

> > That's what Fernando talks about.  Concerning installations -
> > I know it rather well that the most difficult place to localize
> > is the bootloader, but in general the localization is more or
> > less ok. Of course the work's not finished.
> 
> Bootloader-related stuff was reworked a bit somewhere closer to
> 5.0 in mkimage-profiles-desktop but I don't clearly remember
> whether it was *actually* fixed.  Have that on my TODO though
> (for a year or so, cough).
It was, but we still have a minor trouble of the primary language.
AFAIK, other distributions somehow solved that issue (SuSE?).

-- 
  Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov
  GNOME Project
  ALT Linux Team

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Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Fernando Martini]

Hi.

yes, i know Perl, and i can find volunteers from here to help ;)


---
FMartini

Em Qua, 2009-07-08 às 00:09 +0400, Alexey Rusakov escreveu:
> В Втр, 07/07/2009 в 17:58 +0300, Michael Shigorin пишет:
> > On Tue, Jul 07, 2009 at 12:20:54AM +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:
> > > Actually, the main trouble with localization now is
> > > http://sisyphus.ru that is strictly bound to Russian.
> > 
> > It's not -- there are hooks for translations in the engine
> Good news :)
> 
> > but there's apparently quite some need for web development
> > to employ it (and probably fix along the way).  I don't know
> > if anyone volunteers, and so far didn't manage to either help
> > someone do that or do by myself.
> And this is a bad news :) Need someone who knows Perl, I suppose.
> Fernando, does anybody around you know Perl?
> 
> > > That's what Fernando talks about.  Concerning installations -
> > > I know it rather well that the most difficult place to localize
> > > is the bootloader, but in general the localization is more or
> > > less ok. Of course the work's not finished.
> > 
> > Bootloader-related stuff was reworked a bit somewhere closer to
> > 5.0 in mkimage-profiles-desktop but I don't clearly remember
> > whether it was *actually* fixed.  Have that on my TODO though
> > (for a year or so, cough).
> It was, but we still have a minor trouble of the primary language.
> AFAIK, other distributions somehow solved that issue (SuSE?).
> 
> _______________________________________________
> community-en mailing list
> community-en@lists.altlinux.org
> https://lists.altlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/community-en

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Alexey Rusakov]

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В Втр, 07/07/2009 в 17:46 -0300, Fernando Martini пишет:
> Hi.
> 
> yes, i know Perl, and i can find volunteers from here to help ;)
That's very good! Please take a look at prometeus package then - this is
supposed to be the source code of sisyphus.ru/


> Em Qua, 2009-07-08 às 00:09 +0400, Alexey Rusakov escreveu:
> > В Втр, 07/07/2009 в 17:58 +0300, Michael Shigorin пишет:
> > > On Tue, Jul 07, 2009 at 12:20:54AM +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:
> > > > Actually, the main trouble with localization now is
> > > > http://sisyphus.ru that is strictly bound to Russian.
> > > 
> > > It's not -- there are hooks for translations in the engine
> > Good news :)
> > 
> > > but there's apparently quite some need for web development
> > > to employ it (and probably fix along the way).  I don't know
> > > if anyone volunteers, and so far didn't manage to either help
> > > someone do that or do by myself.
> > And this is a bad news :) Need someone who knows Perl, I suppose.
> > Fernando, does anybody around you know Perl?

-- 
  Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov
  GNOME Project
  ALT Linux Team

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Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Michael Shigorin]

On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 12:51:13AM +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:
> > yes, i know Perl, and i can find volunteers from here to help ;)
> That's very good! Please take a look at prometeus package then
> - this is supposed to be the source code of sisyphus.ru/

Should be pretty ancient version but I'm willing to hand over
current tarball and DB schema (offlist and probably not too fast).

_Probably_ (not sure) git.altlinux.org would help:

$ ssh git.alt find-package prometeus                                  
/people/liks/packages/prometeus.git     1243793411
/people/dottedmag/packages/prometeus.git        1234051625
/people/viy/packages/prometeus.git      1215631828
/people/icesik/packages/prometeus.git   1187793904

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Alexey Rusakov]

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В Срд, 08/07/2009 в 18:52 +0300, Michael Shigorin пишет:
> On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 12:51:13AM +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:
> > > yes, i know Perl, and i can find volunteers from here to help ;)
> > That's very good! Please take a look at prometeus package then
> > - this is supposed to be the source code of sisyphus.ru/
> 
> Should be pretty ancient version but I'm willing to hand over
> current tarball and DB schema (offlist and probably not too fast).
> 
> _Probably_ (not sure) git.altlinux.org would help:
> 
> $ ssh git.alt find-package prometeus                                  
> /people/liks/packages/prometeus.git     1243793411
> /people/dottedmag/packages/prometeus.git        1234051625
> /people/viy/packages/prometeus.git      1215631828
> /people/icesik/packages/prometeus.git   1187793904
2 fmartini@: The numbers to the right are UNIX-times of the last update.
So the newest version should be the one of liks, and the next newest is
the one of dottedmag@ (you should already be acquainted with him).

-- 
  Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov
  GNOME Project
  ALT Linux Team

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Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Grigory Batalov]

On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:46:20 -0300
Fernando Martini wrote:

> yes, i know Perl, and i can find volunteers from here to help ;)

I know Perl too =)

> > > but there's apparently quite some need for web development
> > > to employ it (and probably fix along the way).  I don't know
> > > if anyone volunteers, and so far didn't manage to either help
> > > someone do that or do by myself.
> > And this is a bad news :) Need someone who knows Perl, I suppose.
> > Fernando, does anybody around you know Perl?

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Alexey Rusakov]

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В Птн, 10/07/2009 в 15:58 +0400, Grigory Batalov пишет:
> On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:46:20 -0300
> Fernando Martini wrote:
> 
> > yes, i know Perl, and i can find volunteers from here to help ;)
> 
> I know Perl too =)
Are you willing to make http://sisyphus.ru available in English? 8-)

> > > > but there's apparently quite some need for web development
> > > > to employ it (and probably fix along the way).  I don't know
> > > > if anyone volunteers, and so far didn't manage to either help
> > > > someone do that or do by myself.
> > > And this is a bad news :) Need someone who knows Perl, I suppose.
> > > Fernando, does anybody around you know Perl?

-- 
  Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov
  GNOME Project
  ALT Linux Team

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Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Mikhail A. Pokidko]

2009/7/10 Alexey Rusakov <ktirf@altlinux.org>:
> В Птн, 10/07/2009 в 15:58 +0400, Grigory Batalov пишет:
>> On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:46:20 -0300
>> Fernando Martini wrote:
>>
>> > yes, i know Perl, and i can find volunteers from here to help ;)
>>
>> I know Perl too =)
> Are you willing to make http://sisyphus.ru available in English? 8-)
I could also help with translation if needed.





-- 
xmpp: pma AT altlinux DOT org

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Michael Shigorin]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 03:08:54PM +0300, Alex Negulescu wrote:
> I wrote to Michael Shigorin too that I want to join the team
> and I need some help from a mentor, with the steps and all
> that. (I read on the wiki the steps etc, but the participation
> of a mentor is required anyway).

Well it's usually convenient anyway. :)

> What could be more important is to have the wiki in english too.

Would you be interested in http://en.altlinux.org then?
You could contact dottedmag@ regarding plans and advice on what's
missing (he's rather in position to see the larger picture).

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Michael Shigorin]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 03:48:04PM +0300, Alex Negulescu wrote:
> Well, regarding the team joining, how will we do it ?

See the pages linked from http://www.altlinux.org/Join;
seems you'd file a bug in Development/Team accounts/join
including:

* your desired login (3+ alphanumeric symbols);
* email address to use for mail forwarding;
* SSH pubkey (RSA 2048bit or DSA 1024bit) as an attachment;
* GPG pubkey (DSA and ElGamal 1024bit), including uid for
  $login@altlinux.org;
* a few introduction words on your plans in team (guess it might
  be reasonable to put already published packages in Sisyphus);
* me in Cc: and mentioned as mentor, as we already agreed
  (using address @altlinux.org).

> And yes, I would be more interested into http://en.altlinux.org,
> there could be some more useful info.

Well /Join might make sense translating too, although currently
I'm a but puzzled at how all of this will be worked out; still,
if there's a desire then things will be. :)

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike@altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

Re: [Comm-en] Sisyphus multi-language

[Grigory Batalov]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:01:59 +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:

> > > yes, i know Perl, and i can find volunteers from here to help ;)
> > 
> > I know Perl too =)
> Are you willing to make http://sisyphus.ru available in English? 8-)

Yeah, I would like to participate.

> > > > > but there's apparently quite some need for web development
> > > > > to employ it (and probably fix along the way).  I don't know
> > > > > if anyone volunteers, and so far didn't manage to either help
> > > > > someone do that or do by myself.
> > > > And this is a bad news :) Need someone who knows Perl, I suppose.
> > > > Fernando, does anybody around you know Perl?