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From: Alexey Tourbin <at@altlinux.ru>
To: ALT Linux Team development discussions <devel@lists.altlinux.org>
Subject: Re: [devel] Q: --copy-dt-needed-entries
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:51:13 +0300
Message-ID: <20100321145113.GD30094@altlinux.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100321131440.GA1931@wo.int.altlinux.org>

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On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 04:14:41PM +0300, Dmitry V. Levin wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 01:19:10PM +0300, Evgeny Sinelnikov wrote:
> > 21 марта 2010 г. 13:11 пользователь Andrey Rahmatullin написал:
> > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 01:04:53PM +0300, Stanislav Ievlev wrote:
> > >> >> Вместо того чтобы усовершенствовать систему библиотек откатывают
> > >> >> разработку на C на уровень прошлого столетия.
> > >> > А в чём регрессия? Что и как стоит усовершенствовать?
> > >> Я бы предпочёл не знать, с кем там линкуется библиотека, которую я использую.
> > 
> > Так тут ведь и не предлагают знать. Наоборот, предлагают ещё и не
> > линковаться явно с той библиотекой, которую ты используешь, если её
> > использует другая библиотека, которую ты тоже используешь.
> > 
> > > А при чём тут? Речь о том, что если ты используешь библиотеку, тебе
> > > обязательно надо линковаться с ней явно.
> > 
> > Ну, да...
> 
> --copy-dt-needed-entries можно рассматривать как дополнение к --as-needed:
> 
> Первый параметр заставляет линковать свою программу со всеми
> библиотеками, котрые эта программа непосредственно использует.

In ld(1) manpage, perhaps the description is not quite clear.  And we
should strive for very accurate wording in order to avoid a total mess.
(E.g. we'd better avoid anthropomorphic clauses like "zastavlyaet".)

|       --copy-dt-needed-entries
|       --no-copy-dt-needed-entries
|	   This  option  affects the treatment of dynamic libraries
|	   referred to by DT_NEEDED tags inside ELF dynamic libraries
|	   mentioned on the command line.  Normally the linker will add
|	   a DT_NEEDED tag to the output binary for each  library
|	   mentioned  in  a DT_NEEDED tag in an input dynamic library.

So, "normally" what's happening is something like a "shallow closure".
E.g. when I link with libgtk+2, glib2 is going to be linked in, too,
automatically.

|	   With --no-copy-dt-needed-entries specified on the command
|	   line however any dynamic libraries that follow it will have
|	   their DT_NEEDED entries ignored.  The default  behaviour can
|	   be restored with --copy-dt-needed-entries.

So --copy-dt-needed-entries is the default - which is to link in more
dependencies automatically;  --no-copy-dt-needed-entries reverts this
logic to its bare minimum - only what you specified on the command line
gets actually linked in (so you must specify e.g. both libgtk+2 and glib2).

|	  This option also has an effect on the resolution of symbols in
|	  dynamic libraries.  With the default setting dynamic libraries
|	  mentioned on the command line will be recursively searched,
|	  following  their  DT_NEEDED  tags  to  other libraries,  in
|	  order to resolve symbols required by the output binary.  With
|	  --no-copy-dt-needed-entries specified however the searching of
|	  dynamic libraries that follow it will stop with the dynamic
|	  library itself.  No  DT_NEEDED links will be traversed to
|	  resolve symbols.

Again, "this option also has an effect on the resolution of symbols"
is a poor wording.  Does this option affect only DT_NEEDED entries,
or does it also set some other flags in the output binary?  Does this
paragraph address the ld(1) behaviour or rather ld.so(8) behaviour?

> Второй параметр не дает слинковать свою программу с библиотеками, которые
> эта программа не использует непосредственно.
> 
> В результате программа должна получиться слинкованной с теми и только с
> теми библиотеками, которые она непосредственно использует, т.е. должна
> произойти правильная оптимальная линковка.

So, contrary to the initial message, with --as-needed on, there seems
to be NO REASON to enable --no-copy-dt-needed-entries by default.

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  reply	other threads:[~2010-03-21 14:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-03-18 22:14 [devel] Q: --no-add-needed Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-18 22:22 ` Dmitry V. Levin
2010-03-19  0:36 ` Max Ivanov
2010-03-19  8:40   ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-19 12:29     ` Max Ivanov
2010-03-19 12:51       ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-19 20:49         ` Dmitry V. Levin
2010-03-19 21:24           ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-21  9:54         ` Stanislav Ievlev
2010-03-21 10:02           ` Evgeny Sinelnikov
2010-03-21 10:04             ` Stanislav Ievlev
2010-03-21 10:11               ` Andrey Rahmatullin
2010-03-21 10:19                 ` Evgeny Sinelnikov
2010-03-21 13:14                   ` [devel] Q: --copy-dt-needed-entries Dmitry V. Levin
2010-03-21 14:51                     ` Alexey Tourbin [this message]
2010-03-21 15:34                       ` [devel] Q: --no-copy-dt-needed-entries Dmitry V. Levin
2010-03-21 19:18                         ` Alexey Tourbin
2010-03-22  0:26                           ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-22  0:27                             ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-22  8:11                             ` Alexey Tourbin
2010-03-22 11:00                               ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-22 13:58                                 ` Alexey Tourbin
2010-03-22 15:41                                   ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-22 17:19                                     ` Alexey Tourbin
2010-03-22 18:31                                       ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-22 14:15                                 ` Sergei Epiphanov
2010-03-22 14:31                                   ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2010-03-22 14:41                                   ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-22  7:23                           ` [devel] Q: --no-copy-dt-needed-entries. " Любит-не =?windows-1251?b?IOv+4ejy?=". И? Sergei Epiphanov
2010-03-22  7:28                             ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-22  8:23                               ` Alexey Tourbin
2010-03-24 18:04                                 ` [devel] Q: --no-copy-dt-needed-entries Dmitry V. Levin
2010-03-24 18:24                                   ` Alexey Tourbin
2010-03-24 19:01                                     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-24 22:01                                       ` Dmitry V. Levin
2010-03-25 17:14                                         ` Michael Shigorin
2010-03-24 18:15                         ` Dmitry V. Levin
2010-03-24 18:24                           ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-24 18:28                             ` Dmitry V. Levin
2010-03-24 18:40                               ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2010-03-22 14:48                 ` [devel] Q: --no-add-needed Stanislav Ievlev

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