From: Mikhail Zabaluev <mhz@alt-linux.org> To: mandrake-russian@altlinux.ru Subject: [mdk-re] Re: Взгляд со стороны Date: Sat Mar 16 02:38:03 2002 Message-ID: <20020315234329.GC3011@mhz.mikhail.zabaluev.name> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20020316011711.45500842.romul.home@mtu-net.ru> Hello ROmul, On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 01:17:11AM +0300, ROmul wrote: > > MZ> Пользователи, на которых понятность и агрессивность коммивояжёра > MZ> действует больше, чем соображения эффективности и цены, IMHO, не > MZ> стоят усилий разработчиков свободного ПО, > Таких большинство, просто потому, что при наличии конкуренции человек будет выбирать тот товар, по которому у него больше положительной информации или информации вообще! И ествественно если на улице будет стоять > хорошо одетый человек с красочным плакатом и рядом скромный "ханурик" с пачкой патентов на изобретения, подходить будут к тому кто с плакатом. Человек с плакатом у нас уже есть...и "ханурик" тоже.... Есть соображение, что люди, которые вращают этот мир, знают, когда нужно выбрать ханурика (аналогия неудачная, больше подходит профессор "со странностями"). Чёрт возьми, чтобы выжить, какая-то часть человечества должна думать, а не пускать слюни. > MZ> мотивация которых > MZ> обычно состоит не в том, чтобы кому-то что-то впарить. > Тем более если так ценны и велики усилия затрачиваемые на производство продукта, то и усилия на его продвижение должны быть соответсвующие. Иначе зачем усилия, если продукт не может найти конечного пользователя или самонеокупается? Для free software/open source характерны следующие вещи: - первые конечные пользователи -- разработчики или непосредственные заказчики программы (90% мирового ПО создаётся по прямым заказам); - продукт окупается в момент его создания -- за счёт выполнения потребностей заказчиков, самореализации автора, увеличения популярности/эго и множества других тёмных причин, побуждающих людей делать странные вещи; - усилия на продвижение в большинстве случаев исчерпываются выкладыванием архива в сеть, созданием нехитрого сайта и размещением информации в открытых каталогах типа Freshmeat. После этого, если проект чего-то стоит, он "makes it". > И еще про агрессивность - ясно как день, что маркетинговая политика, поведение на рынке и количество и качество рекламы никак не связаны с тем каков на самом деле продукт и прилагаемые к нему услуги. Так же как содержание рекламы давным давно не связаны со свойствами продаваемого продукта. Этот разговор не для меня. Мне бы, знаете ли, всякими интересными вещами позаниматься на своём компьютере. А не арендовать красивое кайло у уважаемой фирмы. -- Stay tuned, MhZ JID: mookid@jabber.org ___________ When confronted by a difficult problem, you can solve it more easily by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-03-16 2:38 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 263+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2002-03-15 6:38 [mdk-re] ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ îÏ×ÏÍÌÉÎÓËÉÊ éÇÏÒØ 2002-03-15 9:45 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] [JT] Взгляд со стороны Roman S 2002-03-15 13:16 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-15 14:29 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] " ROmul 2002-03-15 15:28 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] JT " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-15 16:38 ` [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-15 16:49 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-15 16:26 ` [mdk-re] Re: [JT] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-15 16:51 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-15 19:48 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-15 23:15 ` [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-17 16:06 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-15 22:09 ` ROmul 2002-03-16 1:12 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-16 2:05 ` Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-16 2:00 ` Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-16 10:02 ` [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-16 12:41 ` Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-16 13:21 ` [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-16 13:39 ` ROmul 2002-03-16 14:53 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-17 1:06 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-18 9:14 ` [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-18 15:05 ` [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Michael Shigorin 2002-03-18 15:39 ` Anatoly A. Yakushin 2002-03-18 16:17 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-18 16:43 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-18 17:40 ` ROmul 2002-03-18 17:46 ` [mdk-re] " Ilia Menchikh 2002-03-19 12:06 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 12:37 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-19 13:37 ` [mdk-re] [JT] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 14:20 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-19 13:55 ` [mdk-re] " Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-19 13:51 ` [mdk-re] RE: [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] " ROmul 2002-03-19 12:05 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-18 17:11 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] " Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-18 16:18 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-18 17:29 ` [mdk-re] " Ilia Menchikh 2002-03-18 17:50 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-18 18:11 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] RE: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Sergey S. Skulachenko 2002-03-18 19:24 ` [mdk-re] RE: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-18 17:58 ` [mdk-re] " Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-19 12:20 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 14:02 ` Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-18 17:58 ` [mdk-re] RE: [mdk-re] " ROmul 2002-03-19 12:19 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 13:48 ` ROmul 2002-03-19 14:41 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 15:50 ` [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-19 17:14 ` [mdk-re] " Ilia Menchikh 2002-03-19 17:54 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-20 8:54 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-20 14:10 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-20 15:23 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-21 9:12 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-21 9:40 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-21 9:48 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-21 10:05 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-21 10:10 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-21 11:17 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-21 12:22 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] [mdk-re] Re: Linuxoffice " Andriy Dobrovol's'kii 2002-03-21 10:16 ` [mdk-re] Re: Linux office " Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-21 11:15 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-21 12:20 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-21 10:14 ` Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-22 2:37 ` [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-23 10:14 ` [mdk-re] ошибка при сборке ядра из сизифа Dmitry S Kiselev 2002-03-23 10:33 ` Dmitry S Kiselev 2002-03-19 18:15 ` [mdk-re] [mdk-re] Re: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Andriy Dobrovol's'kii 2002-03-20 2:24 ` [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-20 10:45 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-21 2:12 ` [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-20 10:10 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 14:14 ` [mdk-re] Re: Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-20 10:42 ` [mdk-re] Re: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Michael Shigorin 2002-03-20 12:25 ` [mdk-re] Re: Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 18:21 ` [mdk-re] Re: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) ROmul 2002-03-20 2:23 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-20 10:43 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 12:07 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 12:20 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 13:50 ` ROmul 2002-03-19 14:42 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 14:07 ` Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-18 20:05 ` [mdk-re] " Anatoly A. Yakushin 2002-03-19 11:04 ` Vyt 2002-03-19 11:29 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Russu V.F. 2002-03-19 11:47 ` [mdk-re] Re: [JT] Linux office solution Vyt 2002-03-19 13:03 ` Russu V.F. 2002-03-19 11:31 ` [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) AVL 2002-03-19 14:48 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 17:06 ` AVL 2002-03-19 17:15 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 17:09 ` [mdk-re] Re: Linux office solution Vyt 2002-03-19 17:20 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 18:30 ` ROmul 2002-03-19 19:54 ` Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-19 20:06 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-20 6:27 ` [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Alexey Morozov 2002-03-19 11:46 ` Peter V. Saveliev 2002-03-19 14:41 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-20 6:28 ` [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Alexey Morozov 2002-03-19 12:02 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-19 12:44 ` [mdk-re] Re: [JT] Linux office solution Vyt 2002-03-19 14:13 ` Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 15:26 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 20:29 ` Re[2]: " Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 20:43 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 22:26 ` Re[2]: " Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 15:51 ` Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-20 12:33 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-20 16:22 ` Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-20 23:10 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 14:25 ` Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-19 14:49 ` Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-19 16:12 ` Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-19 17:49 ` AVL 2002-03-20 8:55 ` Re[2]: " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-19 15:34 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-20 6:27 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-19 13:03 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Russu V.F. 2002-03-19 14:11 ` [mdk-re] " Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-20 10:46 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-20 11:17 ` Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-19 12:46 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 13:36 ` [mdk-re] [JT] Re: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 14:41 ` [mdk-re] [JT] Re: Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-20 6:27 ` [mdk-re] [JT] Re: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Alexey Morozov 2002-03-20 22:49 ` [mdk-re] [JT] Re: Linux office solution(was: " Vitaly Lipatov 2002-03-19 13:44 ` [mdk-re] Re: [JT] Linux office solution Vyt 2002-03-19 15:01 ` [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 16:09 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-19 16:23 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 17:06 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-20 2:23 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-20 3:14 ` [mdk-re] " Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 20:26 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 20:40 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 20:26 ` [mdk-re] to pay or not to pay (was: Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ)) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 20:37 ` [mdk-re] to pay or not to pay (was: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны)) Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 22:26 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] to pay or not to pay (was: Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ)) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 23:29 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] to pay or not to pay (was: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны)) Любимов А.В. 2002-03-20 11:30 ` [mdk-re] " Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-20 13:55 ` AVL 2002-03-20 14:38 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-20 15:41 ` AVL 2002-03-20 16:41 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-20 17:19 ` AVL 2002-03-20 15:54 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Artem Pastuchov 2002-03-20 16:17 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-20 2:23 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-20 10:46 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-20 13:11 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Denis G. Samsonenko 2002-03-20 6:27 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Alexey Morozov 2002-03-20 10:35 ` Antonio 2002-03-20 10:57 ` AVL 2002-03-20 12:06 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-20 11:45 ` [mdk-re] right thing vs. good enough (was: Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ)) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-20 12:24 ` [mdk-re] right thing vs. good enough (was: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны)) Alexey Morozov 2002-03-20 16:27 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] right thing vs. good enough (was: Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ)) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-20 11:45 ` Re[4]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-20 12:36 ` [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Andriy Dobrovol's'kii 2002-03-20 13:46 ` [mdk-re] " Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-20 16:27 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 13:05 ` Denis G. Samsonenko 2002-03-19 14:00 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: чЪЗМСД УП УФПТПОЩ) Vyt 2002-03-19 15:13 ` [mdk-re] Re[4]: " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-20 10:49 ` [mdk-re] " Vyt 2002-03-20 12:27 ` [mdk-re] Re: Linux office solution (was: Þÿúíóä õð õæðôðïý) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 14:13 ` Re[3]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 13:50 ` [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) ROmul 2002-03-19 15:09 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-19 16:22 ` Sergey Vlasov 2002-03-19 15:31 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-20 6:25 ` [mdk-re] " Alexey Morozov 2002-03-20 11:45 ` Re[2]: [mdk-re] Linux office solution (was: ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-19 12:05 ` [mdk-re] Re: Linux office solution (was: Взгляд со стороны) Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 12:20 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 12:05 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-17 1:23 ` [mdk-re] [JT] Взглядсо стороны cornet 2002-03-18 9:14 ` [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-18 10:33 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-16 15:08 ` [mdk-re] Re: [JT] Взгляд со стороны Michael Shigorin 2002-03-16 15:40 ` [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-16 16:32 ` Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-16 16:40 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-16 16:46 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-16 16:51 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-16 16:57 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-16 17:07 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-16 17:22 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-16 17:25 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-16 17:28 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-16 17:31 ` Korshunov Ilya 2002-03-16 19:29 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-16 20:51 ` Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-16 21:51 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-16 21:54 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-16 23:02 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-18 13:09 ` [mdk-re] Re: Bonobo Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-19 11:58 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-19 14:17 ` Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-16 22:37 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] Re: [JT] Взгляд со стороны Roman S 2002-03-18 9:14 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-18 10:15 ` [mdk-re] " Aleksandr Blohin 2002-03-18 12:39 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-18 15:04 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-17 1:07 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-18 9:14 ` [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-18 15:05 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-16 22:45 ` [mdk-re] " Ilia Menchikh 2002-03-16 22:52 ` [mdk-re] " cornet 2002-03-17 0:43 ` Ilia Menchikh 2002-03-17 0:54 ` cornet 2002-03-18 9:14 ` [mdk-re] " Sergey Sokolov 2002-03-16 15:35 ` [mdk-re] " Konstantin Lepikhov 2002-03-15 16:37 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-15 19:53 ` Roman S 2002-03-15 16:39 ` Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-15 22:09 ` ROmul 2002-03-16 0:19 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-16 0:33 ` [mdk-re] " Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-16 1:19 ` ROmul 2002-03-16 2:38 ` Mikhail Zabaluev [this message] 2002-03-16 11:13 ` ROmul 2002-03-16 12:58 ` Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-16 15:04 ` [mdk-re] Re: [JT] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-16 12:23 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-16 15:59 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] " Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-17 2:39 ` ROmul 2002-03-17 4:26 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-17 6:08 ` Alexey Morozov 2002-03-17 15:04 ` ROmul 2002-03-17 15:26 ` Gosha 2002-03-18 13:02 ` [mdk-re] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 1:08 ` ROmul 2002-03-18 10:15 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] " AVL 2002-03-18 13:25 ` ROmul 2002-03-18 15:05 ` [mdk-re] Re: [JT] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-18 15:28 ` Aleksey Novodvorsky 2002-03-19 0:39 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-18 22:53 ` [mdk-re] " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-18 22:57 ` Любимов А.В. 2002-03-18 23:08 ` Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-19 1:36 ` [mdk-re] Re[2]: " Maksim Otstavnov 2002-03-19 12:21 ` [mdk-re] ifdown avl (was: [JT] Взгляд со стороны) Michael Shigorin 2002-03-19 14:41 ` [mdk-re] ifdown avl (was: [JT] ÷ÚÇÌÑÄ ÓÏ ÓÔÏÒÏÎÙ) Serge Skorokhodov 2002-03-18 15:12 ` [JT] Re: [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] Взгляд со стороны Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-18 16:34 ` [mdk-re] [JT] " ROmul 2002-03-19 10:34 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] " Shur 2002-03-19 10:45 ` admin 2002-03-19 11:01 ` [mdk-re] " Mikhail Zabaluev 2002-03-20 11:23 ` [mdk-re] Re: [mdk-re] " Shur 2002-03-19 11:33 ` [mdk-re] RE: [JT] " Ilia Menchikh 2002-03-19 11:43 ` [mdk-re] " Tihonov Vladimir 2002-03-19 12:17 ` [mdk-re] " Artem K. Jouravsky 2002-03-19 13:35 ` Michael Shigorin 2002-03-20 11:24 ` [mdk-re] " Shur 2002-03-19 13:08 ` [mdk-re] [JT] " Michael Shigorin 2002-03-20 8:06 ` Shur 2002-03-15 20:15 ` [mdk-re] " Alexandre Prokoudine 2002-03-15 20:53 ` [mdk-re] " Aleksey Novodvorsky
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